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Government data showed an increase in job loss today.

Hilda Solis, Labor Secretary, addressed the situation this morning, according to a Reuters report.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States will do whatever is necessary to break "the destructive cycle of job loss," Labor Secretary Hilda Solis said Friday after new data showed the U.S. unemployment rate had hit a 25-year high.

U.S. employers cut 651,000 jobs in February, according to government data that also showed that a combined 161,000 more jobs were lost in January and December than previously believed.

Solis said she was boosting by $3.5 billion the money available to states for education, training and re-employment.

This diary does not intend, nor does it imply any negativity toward foreign citizens or workers present in the US. It is only a discussion of employer visas, and the current policies of US government with respect to labor practices by US employers.

AFL-CIO reports indicate that the new sheriff, Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, will waste no time in cleaning up the town.

Hilda Solis has asked for a review of the visas that were granted so that building contractors in Florida would be able to hire workers from abroad. When the visas were issued, more than 1,000 members of the Sheet Metal Workers union (SMWIA) were out of work in the same area. The issue concerns work on the St. Regis Hotel project in Bal Harbour, Fla.

AFL-CIO report continued

Many employers want to bring in more guest workers to keep wages low, experts say. Many companies pay less than a living wage, and some force the foreign workers to live in horrid conditions and work long hours.

Solis wants to know how CYVSA could hire foreign workers when there are sheet metal workers out of work in South Florida. At a town hall meeting earlier this week, as part of the AFL-CIO Executive Council meeting in Miami, Solis said:


We are going to have to take a look at it and, hopefully, work closely with [Homeland Security Secretary Janet] Napolitano to see how we better focus so that these things don’t happen and that we avoid them [in the future]. There were before I came into my position visas that were permitted under the Bush administration that we will take a very, very close look at and [with] a very keen eye go through. But, rest assured, we will take a strong view on that.

At the town hall meeting, Solis indicated that her mandate is to clean up the errant labor practices of many employers in the US.

The common theme among many of the unacceptable labor practices is bypass. US citizens and other authorized workers are ignored, while US employers bring workers in from abroad to do the work. After so many years of getting away with EEO violations at will, many employers have developed a policy of entitlement toward their ability to bypass US workers, using a variety of visas and processes in the process. The details of which visa is used in which case is hardly significant. The principle of allowing employers to use bypass is extremely significant.

Sens Durbin (D-IL) and Sanders (I-VT) have also been active in supporting US workers when it comes to the labor practices of US employers. Senator Durbin co-sponsored SB 1035. Senator Sanders co-sponsored ARRA amendment SA 306. Solis joins them as another member of the Federal government who is prepared to act in support of US workers and STEM professionals. Will Kossacks agree to examine labor issues in the light of day, along with the great progressive leaders of the US today?

Some of the variations of the theme of bypass that are being practiced are the PERM process and the initial placement on employer visas.
This is important to many US tech workers since many are hoping that Solis will also begin to scrutinize employer practices vs the laws governing these other areas of labor as well.

Consider the infamous PERM seminar presented on May 15, 2007, by Cohen & Grigsby, a Pittsburgh, PA law firm.

In the clip, entitled Cohen & Gribsby's Seventh Annual Immigration Law Update, Lawrence Lebowitz, Vice President of Marketing, is captured on film while instructing US employers on the best way to sidestep the current laws pertaining to the transition from non immigrant H-1B visa to green card. This is known as the PERM process.

...our goal is clearly not to find a qualified and interested US worker.

The reason for the seminar is that the process does involve a labor certification requirement, which some CEOs find unsuitable for their tastes. The lawyers have a few underhanded legal maneuvers that they can teach their apt pupils. CEOs who prefer to bypass local talent strut boldly around the law and continue to get what they are after: cut-rate labor that is, as an added bonus, secured in the position. After the initial placement on a visa, the worker from overseas depends on the visa for his/her position in the US as a non immigrant worker. Even after the PERM process has begun within a few years, the company still has the worker on the hook because, in order to turn the temporary work situation into resident alien, or green card status, they must go through a lengthy process.

The entire procedure, first on a visa for a specific job, then through the visa-to-green card transition acts as a the best guarantee US employers have that the new worker will not be able to leave the company without going through an enormous hassle first. In addition, a worker on an employer visa may be unwilling to risk the opportunity to become a permanent resident in the US, and eventually a citizen, by looking for another job. When US employers have developed a policy of entitlement, such as the Cohen & Grigsby clients definitely have, they begin to expect that they will usurp the role of US government on certain key issues. They obviously feel that they are the best qualified to determine who will be bypassed in the first place, who will be hired for jobs in the US, and who will be acceptable for tech careers, based on work authorization or citizenship status. Employers are also allowed to screen out older job seekers at their discretion. This is another separate civil rights violation that is also being accepted as legal. CEOs determine whether they will replace the qualified, available, and interested US citizens and green card holders.

Employment based preference totals for PERM


Employment-based preferences
1998 = 77,413
1999 = 56,678
2000 = 106,642
2001 = 178,702
2002 = 173,814
2003 = 81,727
2004 = 155,330
2005 = 246,877
2006 = 159,081
2007 = 162,176

The vast majority of these "adjustments in status" are non immigrant dual-intent L-1 and H-1B visas.

The damage done to US citizens who are gullible enough to believe that the job really exists for them will experience an increased drain on their savings if they attempt to travel for PERM interviews. I have personally known people whose savings, investments, and 401k holdings were exhausted during 2001 to 2003, the earlier days of the PERM fake job ads. They were holding onto hope that a job was available for at least one of them. They delayed the inevitable by flying that person around the US to interview for jobs because of these bogus job ads! In the end, highly questionable professional connections had to be renewed, and the placement was finally made successfully after a period of roughly two years of unemployment. This married couple was off to a brand new start after ten years of first rate technical experience in the US! They had no burdensome savings, stock, or 401k left to weigh them down. Is that what the US is all about?

Now let's look at the figures for the initial placement on a visa. The annual totals for H-1B and L-1 are taken from this table.

Classes of Nonimmigrants Issued Visas (Detailed Breakdown)
(Including Crewlist Visas and Border Crossing Cards)
Fiscal Years 1989 - 2008*

H-1B Temporary worker - performing services other than as a registered nurse

1989 = -
1990 = 794
1991 = 51,882
1992 = 44,290
1993 = 35,818
1994 = 42,843
1995 = 51,832
1996 = 58,327
1997 = 80,547
1998 = 91,360
1999 = 116,513
2000 = 133,290
2001 = 161,643
2002 = 118,352
2003 = 107,196
2004 = 138,965
2005 = 124,099
2006 = 135,421
2007 = 154,053
2008 = 129,464

L-1 Intracompany transferee (executive, managerial, and specialized personnel continuing employment with international firm or corporation)

1989 = 13,648
1990 = 14,342
1991 = 16,109
1992 = 17,345
1993 = 20,369
1994 = 22,666
1995 = 29,088
1996 = 32,098
1997 = 36,589
1998 = 38,307
1999 = 41,739
2000 = 54,963
2001 = 59,384
2002 = 57,721
2003 = 57,245
2004 = 62,700
2005 = 65,458
2006 = 72,613
2007 = 84,532
2008 = 84,078

These are the two most commonly used types of employer visas with the totals from 1989 through 2008:

L-1     880,994
H-1B  1,776,689

total 2,657,683

The visas that could be applied to jobs in the STEM fields are as follows: H-1B, L-1, E-3, J-1, TN, and OPT. The total number of these visas that have been granted throughout the years 1989 to 2008 is well over 2.5 million. The length of time the visas are valid varies, but the H-1B is valid for 3 years initially, extensible for another 3 years, and then again for a seventh year. It is safe to say that, if American workers were bypassed in order to place workers on employer visas, then they were probably forced into other occupations as a result or into unemployment. The number of US citizens adversely affected by the employer visa programs could be as high as 2 million. This is not only a blatant violation of EEO principles, it is also a violation of the Constitutional rights of US citizens to practice their professions.

The same unscrupulous US employers who use bypass in the PERM process and in the initial placement on their employer visas will obviously bypass the American students who are fresh out of school. Their preference is to hire inexperienced workers from abroad on employer visas, and then provide on the job training to them for their tech jobs. The want ads prove that beyond any question.

An ad for workers from abroad who will be granted visas to enter and work in the US.

XTS Group is a leading provider of quality IT services and Integrated Solutions offering a wide range of expertise in the areas of Software Development Services, System Integration, ERP Solutions and Product Development. We help our clients like Exxon-Mobil, GE, GM, Walgreens etc with our in-house projects implementations and Staffing Solutions.

Headquartered in Dallas Texas, XTS Group is a fast growing company with offices in Edison New Jersey, Chicago Illinois, United Kingdom, Singapore and Hyderabad India. To satisfy the constant needs of our clients, we actively seek talented technical professionals with all levels (recent graduates to entry level to an experienced level) of expertise in Information Technology field with decent Communication and Analytical skills.

XTS group welcomes students to enroll into Programs which start at the end of summer, fall and Spring Semesters and Jumpstart your career with advanced technologies SAP CRM

Coaching and guidance through out your career and ongoing training to enhance your abilities and help you move up in your career path. Coaching coasts no charges.

H1-B sponsorship to F1/OPT/H4/L1/L2, H1 - H1 Transfers, Green Card sponsorship through PERM.

Some of our other benefits include Free and comfortable accommodation, Relocation assistance (airfare, hotel accommodation, car rental etc.), Health insurance, Dental and Vision insurance, Life insurance, Accidental Death and Dismemberment, 401(K), 6 paid national holidays, Certification exam fee reimbursement, Employee referral program and much more.

Doing Business with a human touch, care and concern is our motive.

Once again I really appreciate for your time and we look forward to working with you. Please review the attached document.

That's not all:

The Growing Immigration Backlog

We estimate that as of 30 September 2006 there were 500,040 principals in the main employment-based categories and an additional 555,044 family members awaiting legal permanent resident status in the United States.

This is being perpetrated on US citizens and other authorized workers at a time when unemployment in the US is at post-depression highs.
California: over 10% unemployment

As many as 2 million US STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) professionals are currently out of their professions as a result of the visa programs and offshoring. When will the ongoing destruction of this career path for mid career or senior level American STEM professionals finally end?

Students in the US are not even bothering to enroll in the STEM programs in schools as they once did, since they know for sure that their government, their employers, and the rest of their countrymen will gladly sell them out after they have finished - in the name of "the greater good." It does not even matter how well the US students do in school, if bypass is being practiced. The best performers among us will be bypassed along with everybody else.

The previous diary posts are very clear in describing the situation in further detail.  I recommend you take the time to familiarize yourself with them, if this topic is new to you.

H-1B capped at 65,000? Bunk!

Top Five Myths

Education Update

Black Talent in Computer Science

The Tech Lobbyists' Secret

Can Kossacks support a return to the EEO? Do we need to support the local base of talent in the US? Is this issue not vitally important to the sustained growth and the health of a free nation?

Originally posted to tech ed on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 09:41 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

    •  Kudlow just went nuts over the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Republicans wanting to "fire non U.S. workers first" and claimed the Republican party will never recover if they don't have the brains to figure this out.

      Moderation in all things-NOT

      by Julie Gulden on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 09:48:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Do you get paid to post the same crap (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jct, Nightprowlkitty, joy sinha, chrome327

      over and over?

      The basic skinny hers is this: there is a 65000 per year cap on the number of H1Bs issued, and each person that gets this visa can only hold their H1B status for a maximum of 6 years. If early terminating visas are reissued to other people (which I think explains why the numbers in the table you post over and over exceed the 65000 cap), because of the 6 year (term) limit, still the total number of H1Bs (adding in the academic use visas which have a 20000 cap) working in the US at any time should be no more than 6x(65000+20000) = 510,000 H1B visas. If we roughly estimate then that the total number of temporary work visas (including L1s/O1s and other visas) is at most around 1 million, that's still a drop in the bucket since the size of the total US work force is approximately 150 million workers. In other words, at most 1% of the (legal and documented) work force consists of people on temporary work visas.

      The economy is suffering as a result of 8 years of gigantic policy blunders such as waging the Iraq war and running up trillions of dollars of deficit on totally unproductive and wasteful spending. It's simply not possible for a less than 1% work force perturbation resulting from temporary worker visas to shake up the economy as much as your repetitive demagoguery may suggest to the casual observer on this board.

      •  Excellent analysis!!!!! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joy sinha, iceweasel, IT Professional
      •  Completely wrong. The figures are in the table (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IT Professional

        above. The number of H-1B visas issued during 2007, for example, was

        2007 = 154,053

        There has been no year since 1996 during which the number of visas issued was fewer than 65,000.

        Also, the H-1B is extensible for another year following the first six years. On top of that, who is going to wait around to get their job back while the so-called "skills shortage" is filled by an employer who brings in a worker for a period of 7 years? In that time, people would need to find a different job or a different line of work. That is being displaced, and being put out of the profession. It is a violation of the rights of US citizens, but it is accepted as legal by an extremely intolerant society.

        There is nothing dishonest in the diary. You choose to ignore the facts - that is the problem that you are having with it.

        In addition, you are in the minority on this issue. The diary that was posted yesterday showed overwhelming support for the numbers that are used here, and for the way they are used. You are outnumbered on DKos. It was 40 in favor of the diary, 9 against, with 2 undecided. You lose.

        •  How do you vote? Had I known you could have vote (0+ / 0-)

          against yesterday's diary, I would have.  I know how to recommend, but, not how to vote against a diary.

          •  I don't think you've actually read (0+ / 0-)

            any of this, either from today or from yesterday.

            •  I did. After I posted the last comment I (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              remembered a poorly worded poll. I chose not to vote.  Don't think for a moment that was me not having an opinion about what the validity of what you said.  I just thought the poll was inane.

              •  Agreed. (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jct, deedogg, chrome327, iceweasel

                I did (unfortunately) read the diary and said in comments I did not vote in the poll.

                My guess is tech ed is using the same kind of analysis in his bogus numbers as he is touting in that poll.

                The more I read tech ed, the more all this sounds like astroturfing to me.


                •  What is astroturfing? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Nightprowlkitty, deedogg
                  •  Grass roots organizing ... (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    jct, deedogg, chrome327

                    ... is from the ground up.

                    Astroturf looks like a popular movement but is really top-down.

                    For an alternative view on this topic, check out Duke1676's diary -- he goes into the kinds of groups that advocate what tech ed is writing about, as well as a more comprehensive view on what to do about H1b.

                    •  Why do you feel so threatened? (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      IT Professional

                      It's just the US workers and other authorized workers going after their EEO. That should be upheld by everyone, not shot down out of hand.

                      It makes you sound like a tech lobbyist.

                    •  Thank you. That diary is interesting, but, its' (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Nightprowlkitty, deedogg

                      suggestions are also out of touch with how businesses operate and makes suggestions that would unduly burden honest small businesses and other employers who hire H-1B workers.

                      •  The difference is ... (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        jct, joy sinha, chrome327

                        ... that if you discussed your concerns with Duke, he'd actually respond and there would be a real conversation.

                        Not like this clown.

                        •  I wonder if tech ed will be back with the same (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Nightprowlkitty, joy sinha

                          crap tomorrow.

                          •  He and a few others ... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            jct, joy sinha

                            ... have been posting this kind of thing for a while now.

                            Wouldn't be surprised at all.

                          •  I have somehting for tomorrow. I think (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            IT Professional

                            you will like it.

                            I will post only new content, if that will make you happy. One thing that I ran into previously, though, is that in their comments, people often asked me where a particular statement or fact was obtained. Then I provided a link to the previously-posted diary. You probably noticed that a lot of the previous entries are thematically related.

                            I thought it would be a more self-contained presentation to just include the previous day's content with the new content from today. It simplifies everything for the readers.

                          •  Tech, Pay no attention to them, (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            bgblcklab1, tech ed

                            my guess is they are NASSCOM paid trollers.  Do not let them silence you.

                            You are doing the right thing to educate the kossaks to these things.

                            I am particularly encouraged that Obama came out against importing nurses.

                            Obama opposes bringing nurses from overseas

                            "The notion that we would have to import nurses makes absolutely no sense," Obama told a gathering of health experts and lawmakers at a White House meeting on health care reforms.

                            Instead, Obama argued that the best possible approach to meet this shortfall is to train people inside the country.

                            "For people who get fired up about the immigration debate and yet don't notice that we could be training nurses right here in the United States," he said responding to an observation made by Congresswoman Lois Capps from California.

                            My guess is he chased off NASSCOM when they came to bribe him to continue the H-1B "outsourcing visa" as they call it.  That's why they're taking it out on you.

                          •  Nurses (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            tech ed, IT Professional

                            Great Post!
                            I have been surprised that the nurses have not spoken up on this issue.  I was very glad to see that the nurses union movement is gaining strength.  This is a very good example of how this issue can prevent workers from improving working conditions.  Shortage of nurses?  How many have quit because of burn out, low wages and excessive mandatory overtime?
                            BTW, for all of the alleged progressives here wrongly accusing anyone of racisim, xenophobia, etc. any guess as to the effect on health care of the home countries with the drain on the nurse being sent here?

                            The second mouse gets the cheese.

                            by bgblcklab1 on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 05:38:53 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  I like this comment. If you go out of the worker (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        IT Professional

                        frame of reference and into the management frame - or corporate frame - or entrepreneurial frame - then you being to see where our points of view diverge.

                        Entrepreneurial thinking is 100% pro-business. They are as right-wing as it gets when it comes to business.

                        My opinion is that Dems split into two groups: entrepreneurial Dems and the more traditional pro-union, labor-oriented Dems. Comments?

                        This diary is pro-labor. There is an ongoing struggle to restore EEO in the US.

                        SB 1035, Durbin's bill of 2007 and 2008, is for the purpose of allowing Americans and green card holders (authorized workers) to compete for the jobs. As it is, and I know you don't agree with me here:

                        If the CEO has decided that n jobs in the company will go to workers brought in on visas - for example H-1B visas - then the US candidates who are local and who are qualified are already locked out of those n jobs. They don't even get the opportunity to compete, because the company has decided to use a visa to fill the position.

                        The PERM process does stipulate that the jobs openings be competed. You can see what business is doing based on the Cohen & Grigsby seminar on the PERM process.

        •  You completely ignored (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jct, Nightprowlkitty, joy sinha

          my remark on why the number of visa issued in your table exceeds the 65000/year cap. Out of those 154,053 H1B visas issued in 2007,

          1. 65000 are probably new visas issued
          1. approx. 20000 academic use H1Bs

          and the remaining (approximately 70 thousand) are quite likely a comination of:
          A. renewals of the H1B status for an existing H1B holder
          B. recycled visa allocation from visas that terminated and the holder returned to their country before their 6(+1) year limit lapsed

          If you can, go ahead and try to prove my estimate of at most 1 million temporary workers at any given time wrong. I don't think you can.

          "In addition, you are in the minority on this issue. The diary that was posted yesterday showed overwhelming support for the numbers that are used here, and for the way they are used. You are outnumbered on DKos. It was 40 in favor of the diary, 9 against, with 2 undecided. You lose."

          This isn't popularity contest. It's about people knowing and working with facts instead of consuming xenophobic demagoguery espoused by the Lou Dobbs kind.

        •  Also, if you are paid by someone to post here, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nightprowlkitty, chrome327

          please make a disclosure.

          •  no, I just like to express my POV. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            IT Professional

            A lot of Kossacks agree with me, too. My poll from yesterday's diary post showed that my approval rating was 40 in favor, 9 against, and 2 undecided.

            •  through out history of time, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              joy sinha

              there have been demagogues such as Lou Dobbs and yourself and your buddy "IT Professional" (judging from both of your posting history) who preyed on people's fears and succeeded in getting people agitated for certain periods of time.

              The reality here, however, is that, the temporary visa work force is only a small fraction of the total US work force of 150 million. I issued you the challenge: prove that there are more than 1 million temporary worker visas at any given time.

              Your agenda appears to be anti-India and to drive up Indophobic sentiments. Truth, however, is that India is a poor/developing country that isn't asking for dole outs; for decades, despite being poor, it invested in education which over time created a fairly decent work force in science and technology which the global economic forces started engaging when India opened up its economy in the 1990s.

              Further, India is a fairly liberal/socialist open democracy with a functional media and a huge emerging middle class. If the US wants to have foothold in the market which that increasing powerful Indian middle class represents, it should maintain a close and friendly economic relationship with India. Going antagonistic with India would prove to be a serious mistake for the US in the long run.

  •  Unfortunately (0+ / 0-)

    Private sector jobs don't have unlimited sources of funding - actually, neither do Government jobs but they control the printing press's.

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by ctexrep on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 09:50:35 AM PST

  •  what I personally think this site needs to do is (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hens Teeth, bfitzinAR, tech ed

    to intelligently link the employment practices of the nation with the health care debate.

    As long as US employers, small bsuinesses are required to provide health benefits for their workers they will remain at a disadvantage over competition.

    Another reason for a totally government funded and operated public option to cover the uninsured and relieve the pressure on the emergenty room necessity, and burden on the states       to cover medicaid.

    It is all linked.

    •  The privitization trend has to stop somewhere. (3+ / 0-)

      It's time to try something different, that's for sure. Public Health Care seems to work in other places, and many of them appear to have greater stability in their economies. I think that everyone can appreciate the plus attached to stability right now. Too often in the US, there is a tendency to go to an extreme in the event that the economy is showing short term gains.

      The people who get the idea that they are rock stars get everyone drinking the same koolaid that they are - then the whole thing blows up at some pint.

      I think you are absolutely right. This needs to be evaluated, and probably implemented as soon as possible, in order to begin a movement toward stability in this country.

      One additional aspect of this is that, because the US is unique among advanced industrialized nations in not providing public health care to the general population, it has an effect on the job market for physicians worldwide. Why not just do as everyone else does and stop saying that our system is superior?

      I went in for medical and dental care in a foreign country, as a resident alien. The facility and staff were very efficient. The treatment was almost free. They charged me pocket change for the office visits and the scrip or the dental work. It was effective and painless.

      Of course, one of the providers did make some disparaging remarks to me about foreigners coming in for their free health care, but I suppose that goes with the territory -- ?

      •  Unless globalisation becomes a casualty of (0+ / 0-)

        this recession/depression by causing all nations to become more protectiionit, as America seems to be heading, it is inevitable that the 'uninsured' will have to be covered by a government adminsitered  option, this in turn actually would probably have the unintended consequences of bringing in more foreign trained docters, nurses   etc, exactly as it does in the UK.

        As the option becomes more attractive to those who are spending far too high a percentage of their income on health insurance which is already rationed by pre-existing conditions, un-covered proceedures etc, more and more will opt for the public option.

        This will have the effect, I think, of creating exactly the same two-tiered system that exists in all nations that do offer the public option. It will bring costs down through competition and raise quality through the same competition.

        It will happen, it has to otherwise America is doomed to an uncompetitive position in the global economy.

        That's my prediction anyway.

  •  Capitalism run amok (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tech ed

    That's what this is.

    Who was Bush_Horror2004, anyway?

    by Dartagnan on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 09:52:23 AM PST

  •  With the exception ... (5+ / 0-)

    ... of your first paragraph, this is an exact repeat of your diary from yesterday, which replaced a previous diary you deleted without responding to (other than to abusively hide rate) many commenters there who were in disagreement with your analysis.

    From yesterday's diary, which you claimed you "reworked" at the suggestion of a poster in your now-deleted diary, the original objection from that very same poster still holds:

    My analysis? NPK, I appreciate your interest.

    Still an ass.

    No links for sourcing of (some new!) tables of information, no analysis of the numbers tech ed provides to define the overlap of said numbers - just a vomiting of stats to incite a "demmed furinners" mentality, regardless of the quaint disclaimer and an entirely solipsistic self-serving poll.

    To delete a diary and then repost a near-duplicate copy of the deleted diary the next day, thereby effectively hiding all comments on the initial post; well, I won't waste my time analyzing the repost.

    I stand by my earlier assessment...

    I have little respect for a diary that blurs the real crisis in illogical hyperbole. IMHO, you are attempting to whip up "immigrant outrage" with twisted and conflated figures. You have a much stronger story if you report the truth.

    Not good tactics, not honest blog journalism



    To take the justifiable fear and concern of all Americans over their jobs and use it to defend only your own is just plain selfish.

    To continue to post the same diary over and over is not a good idea.

    •  Agreed. The poster shouldn't waste our time (5+ / 0-)

      with retread diaries.  Post when you have something new to say.

    •  Hmmm (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jct, Nightprowlkitty
      Un-Rec'd based on this comment.  Want to review other work by the Diarist.

      Who was Bush_Horror2004, anyway?

      by Dartagnan on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 10:04:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It looks as if you prefer to resort to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      IT Professional

      ad hominem attacks against a new diarist, and against a POV that is different from your own.

      I did thank you for sharing your opinions, and mentioned that I appreciate your comments. I am still new to the culture on DKos - if you don't don't mind some repetition.

      I did not realize that using the negative rating for a comment is considered such a serious offense on DKos. To me, it looked like more of a type of polling system on a per-comment basis than anything else.

      Also, deleting the preliminary versions of a blog post don't appear that unusual to me. One of the main factors in my decision to do so was the fact that you apparently wanted all the relevant information including links to tables available in the same diary. Topical information had already been presented in previous posts.

      •  Review the rules before posting, then (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        you won't have problems.  Remember "Duplicative diaries are prohibited." It is just a matter of courtesy to make the site run well, like following the rules of the road

      •  You have had ... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jct, joy sinha, chrome327

        ... every opportunity to read the FAQ here.  If you have so little respect for this community that after having been made aware you were flouting the few rules of this community, you still didn't bother to read and understand the FAQ, then don't blame me.  You continued to hide rate comments even after being informed you were abusing the ratings system.  It was only after the admins. came in that you changed your behavior.

        You have no credibility with me.  I speak only for myself in this.

        I'll let the community decide for themselves as to your sincerity.

        •  I think that the blame game is really your (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          IT Professional

          domain. You don't appear to have any tolerance for another person's point of view.

          •  I notice you are not responding to the content (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Nightprowlkitty, chrome327

            of the argument.

            •  S/he never does. nt (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
            •  The issue is that I have already stated my views. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              IT Professional

              The majority of the people who read the diary and complete the poll agree that I am doing a good job, or even and excellent job.

              One thing I have noticed is that Nightprowlkitty does not like repetition. Why would I continue to repeat what has already been said?

              Finally, two things:
              FAQ reading is -- supposedly - synonymous with an introduction to the culture, according to previous comments... I disagree. There could be instances when the FAQ are provided as guidelines but the culture is not in strict adherence to those guidelines. That is the reason I asked for some advice yesterday, and one of the readers was generous enough to provide me with somer insight into the culture of DKos that I did not have previously.

              Also, I think that some people who are in opposition to this diary's POV would prefer to take a partisan view, and would even consider applying the rules, and the standards of this community unevenly - depending on their subjective opinions of the content.

              I get the feeling that the two of you today are telling me that if I don't post something that you agree with, then I will run into intolerance for my point of view - restore EEO in the US for US citizens and other authorized workers -  on DKos.

              People who are aware of the events of the civil rights movement of the 60's are way ahead of you here. They have been through this issue before. You can't deny opportunity to any of the people who live in the US and expect to get away with it -- not for very long.

              •  You haven't noticed a thing. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                joy sinha, chrome327

                You did not ask for help with the FAQ.  That is a lie.  My own preferences on "repetition" are irrelevant.  I wonder if even now you have bothered to read the FAQ.

                The rest of your screed is your usual distract by attack.  Not once have you responded honestly and on point to those who disagree with you.

                As I said, I trust this community.  They will read your work and see for themselves what you are doing -- aside, of course, from the diary you deleted, where there were substantial comments disagreeing with both your facts and analyses.

                For you to bring up the civil rights movement of the 60s in light of your own selfishness on this issue is stunning.

                I am all for equal opportunity.  You are only for equal opportunity when it comes to your own job.


                •  If people here are interested, and if they (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  IT Professional

                  overwhelmingly want the this diary to continue, then why are you against it?

                  You really act as if you are threatened in some way. I wish I could understand that.

                  •  Threatened? Because she challenges you? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Nightprowlkitty, joy sinha

                    You seem to be the one who is threatened and uses ad hominem, as you accused her of. You just reduced her legitimate arguments to the personal level. Ad hominem.

                    Smells a bit sexists too. Why should she be threatened? Are you threatening her??? Why are you threatening her tech ed???

                    You see how easy it is to twist words and motivations? How does it feel when it is done to YOU?

                    Here try this to help you 'understand.'

                    What you don't seem to get OR respond to is that this is part of the bigger debate on labor migration.

                    My opinion is that Dems split into two groups: entrepreneurial Dems and the more traditional pro-union, labor-oriented Dems. Comments?

                    You left out Dems who are concerned about globalization and migration and what I like to call ...the planet. And the nearly 7 billion people who aren't Americans that live on it. There is a larger discussion here than how labor and immigration laws affect you personally.

                    As many have pointed out, this seems to be more about YOUR job.

                    You don't respond to those people or those issues, but instead attack them personally...or hide rate them.

                    While you are checking out the FAQ, on repetitive diaries, you might also want to google the terms "Spam" and "Astroturfing".

                •  I invited comments by stating the obvious - (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  IT Professional

                  and I think that some of the comments on your side of the argument also noted the same thing. I am new to this board. I do not yet know the culture here. Is that not an invitation to other posters to express an opinion on the topic of the culture of DKos -- ?

          •  As I said before ... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jct, joy sinha

            ... in one of your three retreads of this diary -- the intolerance is all yours.

            I have yet to see you honestly engage in responding to challenges -- you merely repeat your talking points.

            This is not personal with me and I'd appreciate it if you would stop characterizing my motives and character and instead take a closer look at your inability to respect this community in your own behavior.

  •  I think we've got the right President - (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tech ed, IT Professional

    and his appointed Secretary of Labor - to deal with this issue.  That's why the Rs tried so hard to delay, if not stop, her appointment.

  •  Academia a major cuplprit (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hens Teeth, IT Professional

    The United States Congress, the Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services and the National Institutes of Health, and the Department of Justice ought to take a look at this issue very carefully.  In reality, our towers of enlightenment in Academia have been engaged in Crimes against Americans.  A simple place to start would be to look at post-doctoral National Research Service Awards and a Awardees of the National Institutes of Health.  What is the fate of these talented PhDs in our major Academic Medical Centers?  Why, this award used to be a stepping stone to a faculty position in our finest institutions of learning.  Is it cancer cures?  Or is it economic ruin and divorce?  Actually, there is evidence of cancer cures and evidence of contra-indications and warnings upon the use of some very powerful pharmaceuticals that has been quashed by our distinguished doctors and science journals.  Alas, there is also plenty of evidence of economic hardship and family strife; all right here on this very computer.  I feel like posting it on U-Tube!  I feel that my situation is almost I sit here in a Panera and see some middle aged American teaching 2 foreigners English Idioms.  I wonder whose job they will take?  

  •  I must say I am totally in the dark about the (4+ / 0-)

    reaction to this diary. I had not read any other diaries by the writer, and I am interested today in the subject because the financial channels, namely CNBC are all screeching about the 'foreign worker' visa situation as it affects companies like Microsoft, Google and other tech companies that rely on software engineers and state they can't find them here in America and need to go to India etc.

    In addition it is also part of the discussion regarding the 'illegal immigrant' as well as legal visa workers in the construction arena. The visa provisions of American labour laws are a very important component in the health care situation as well.

    It is also part of the controversy this week over Prime Minister Browns visit when many Europeans felt that he was dissed by the Obama administraytion who were moving toward protecuionist policies.

    So I think the subjects the diarist has brought up are quite valid and have absolutely no intention in not recommending it because I found it valuable. I come here to learn new things, not to defend the integrity or the political agenda's of some at the site, and I learned from it.

    Thanks you and have a nice day.

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